Underware's Latin Plus

thank you Georg.

I had a look at it myself and had to fix some names. And I found some minor things that I reported to Underware. Lets see what they say about it.

Here the complete list:

.notdef
.null
CR
space
uni00A0
A
B
C
D
E
F
G
H
I
J
K
L
M
O
P
Q
R
S
T
U
V
W
X
Y
Z
a
b
c
d
e
f
h
i
j
k
l
m
n
o
p
q
r
s
t
u
v
w
x
y
z
Agrave
agrave
Aacute
aacute
Acircumflex
acircumflex
Atilde
atilde
Adieresis
adieresis
Amacron
amacron
Abreve
abreve
Aring
aring
Aringacute
aringacute
Adotbelow
adotbelow
Aogonek
aogonek
AE
ae
AEacute
aeacute
Cacute
cacute
Ccircumflex
ccircumflex
Ccaron
ccaron
Cdotaccent
cdotaccent
Ccedilla
ccedilla
Dcaron
dcaron
Dcroat
dcroat
Eth
eth
Egrave
egrave
Eacute
eacute
Ecircumflex
ecircumflex
Etilde
etilde
Ecaron
ecaron
Edieresis
edieresis
Emacron
emacron
Ebreve
ebreve
Edotaccent
edotaccent
Edotbelow
edotbelow
Eogonek
eogonek
Gcircumflex
gcircumflex
Gcaron
gcaron
Gbreve
gbreve
Gdotaccent
gdotaccent
Gcommaaccent
gcommaaccent
Hcircumflex
hcircumflex
Hbar
hbar
dotlessi
Igrave
igrave
Iacute
iacute
Icircumflex
icircumflex
Itilde
itilde
Idieresis
idieresis
Imacron
imacron
Ibreve
ibreve
Idotaccent
i.TRK
Idotbelow
idotbelow
Iogonek
iogonek
dotlessj
Jcircumflex
jcircumflex
Kcommaaccent
kcommaaccent
kgreenlandic
Lacute
lacute
Lcaron
lcaron
Lcommaaccent
lcommaaccent
Lslash
lslash
Ldot
ldot
Nacute
nacute
Ntilde
ntilde
Ncaron
ncaron
Ncommaaccent
ncommaaccent
Nhookleft
nhookleft
Eng
eng
napostrophe
Ograve
ograve
Oacute
oacute
Ocircumflex
ocircumflex
Otilde
otilde
Odieresis
odieresis
Omacron
omacron
Obreve
obreve
Ohungarumlaut
ohungarumlaut
Odotbelow
odotbelow
Oogonek
oogonek
Oslash
oslash
Oslashacute
oslashacute
OE
oe
Racute
racute
Rcaron
rcaron
Rcommaaccent
rcommaaccent
Sacute
sacute
Scircumflex
scircumflex
Scaron
scaron
Scedilla
scedilla 0
Scommaaccent
scommaaccent
uni1E9E
germandbls
germandbls.alt
Tcaron
tcaron
uni0162
uni0163
uni021A
uni021B
Tbar
tbar
Thorn
thorn
Ugrave
ugrave
Uacute
uacute
Ucircumflex
ucircumflex
Utilde
utilde
Udieresis
udieresis
Umacron
umacron
Ubreve
ubreve
Uring
uring
Uhungarumlaut
uhungarumlaut
Udotbelow
udotbelow
Uogonek
uogonek
Wgrave
wgrave
Wacute
wacute
Wcircumflex
wcircumflex
Wdieresis
wdieresis
Ygrave
ygrave
Yacute
yacute
Ycircumflex
ycircumflex
Ytilde
ytilde
Ydieresis
ydieresis
Ymacron
ymacron
Zacute
zacute
Zcaron
zcaron
Zdotaccent
zdotaccent
IJ
ij
IJacute
ijacute
Schwa
schwa
f_f
fi
f_i
fl
f_l
f_ij
f_f_i
f_f_l
f_f_ij
ampersand
at
asterisk
copyright
registered
trademark
asciicircum
asciitilde
grave
gravecap
acute
acutecap
circumflex
circumflexcap
caron
caroncap
caronalt
tilde
tildecap
dieresis
dieresiscap
macron
macroncap
uni02C9
breve
brevecap
ring
ringcap
hungarumlaut
hungarumlautcap
dotaccent
dotaccentcap
cedilla
dotbelowcomb
ogonek
commaaccent
commaaccentalt
uni00AD
hyphen
endash
emdash
underscore
period
comma
colon
semicolon
exclam
exclamdown
question
questiondown
ellipsis
periodcentered
uni2219
bullet
slash
backslash
bar
brokenbar
parenleft
parenright
bracketleft
bracketright
braceleft
braceright
quotesingle
quotedbl
quoteleft
quoteright
quotedblleft
quotedblright
quotesinglbase
quotedblbase
guilsinglleft
guilsinglright
guillemotleft
guillemotright
paragraph
uniF8FF
numbersign
zero
one
two
three
four
five
six
seven
eight
nine
zeroslash
fraction
uni2215
onequarter
onehalf
threequarters
degree
percent
perthousand
plus
minus
plusminus
equal
notequal
approxequal
multiply
less
greater
lessequal
greaterequal
divide
logicalnot
dagger
daggerdbl
section
Euro
currency
dollar
cent
florin
sterling
yen
onesuperior
twosuperior
threesuperior
ordfeminine
ordmasculine
uni2116
Delta
Deltagreek
Omega
Omegagreek
mu
mugreek
pi
uni2113
estimated
infinity
partialdiff
integral
radical
summation
product
lozenge

1 Like

There is much to be commented on, some of it is outdated, not accessible, or a better naming scheme can be applied. Just to name a few:

circumflexcap
dieresiscap
macroncap

etc.

I recommend (a) combining accents, and (b) the dotted .case suffix instead of cap. That makes a semantical connection to the default diacritic possible. And as an added benefit, you will be able to automate the OT feature code creation.

Deprecated or not in use. I recommend not putting these in any fonts.

Depending on your design, I recommend a different naming/approach.

etc.

There are nice glyph names for that. You can convert names in one go with a system service.

Thanks for the feedback! The system service is also very useful :wink:

uni2113 > literSign
uni1E9E > Germandbls
uni0162 > Tcedilla
uni0163 > tcedilla
uni021A > Tcommaaccent
uni021B > tcommaaccent
uni2219 > bulletoperator
uni2215 > divisionslash
uni2116 > numero
uniF8FF > apple
uni00AD > softhyphen
uni02C9 > firsttonechinese
uni00A0 > nbspace

Latin Plus just need and update, and I’m kinda trying to make it useful for using it glyphs. Thanks for your Help :slight_smile:

Some names were just wrong like
dotlessi > idotless
guillemotleft > guillemetleft
or repeated like this
Delta > Deltagreek (same unicode)

I cleaned everything, and change the names , for me it 's fine now:

LatinPlus-corrected.txt.zip (2.1 KB)

3 Likes

Just curious: RE: IJ, ij : why is it better to exclude them? Are they potentially leading to some failures or something? Or are you referring tho the IJacute, ijacute? If so, I did never ask :slight_smile:

IJ and ij are not in use. Their Unicode status is that they are mere compatibility characters, so that is okay. If your Dutch IJ looks different from a separately typed I and J, I recommend I_J.loclNLD.

2 Likes

Thanks for the info, Rainer! Very interesting and good to know.

I use IJ in my typefaces because that’s an unambiguous way of addressing the IJ-shaped ligature (which does not look like I+J). Even if the character is not in use by Dutch people, at least I have a robust way of producing it for my promo materials. I figure Dutch designers might also appreciate the option to typeset an IJ-ligature without having to worry about localizations and OpenType support and stuff.

That is what I recommend I_J.loclNLD for.

But you might not always want IJ to ligate in a Dutch text, you might want to typeset an IJ ligature in an otherwise German text, and you might just want to use an IJ ligature in an app too dumb to care about localization. In all of these cases, the IJ character works perfectly.

You can disable localization or enter a non-joiner for the two or three proper names in Dutch (in regular Dutch words, there would be a dash between i and j at a syllable boundary), as well as enable it for that Dutch word in German.

And unligated is fine too in a dumb app, that will not really lend itself for serious typography anyway. But I grant you that this last use case is the only one where the IJ character hack can be a solution. It remains a hack though. The code point is not supposed to be used.

Excuse me, Can I delete this characters and nothing will happen?
Because from support myfonts told me:

• IJacute and ijacute don’t have any OT associated with them. Therefore they cannot be accessed. You should look into adding some OT support for them.

Read this please:
https://www.glyphsapp.com/tutorials/localize-your-font-accented-dutch-ij

Thank you very much Rainer.
This is great.

Mostly for information purposes, I have also found Underware’s Latin Plus pretty helpful in understanding which readers have which accents in Latin. However, I also agree it can be a little misleading on what is ‘necessary’ for common use . I’ve also found it interesting that matters have changed even since my last typeface release only 18 months ago.

For example:
Udotbelow / udotbelow
I added this in my last typeface, but now note that it is no longer in use:
https://www.igboguide.org/HT-igbogrammar.htm

in addition to @mekkablue 's note above on napostrophe, there’s also aring acute, oslash acute and others on the Latin Plus list which are only historical forms and not in common use.

I wonder if anyone is keeping a track of these. Does anyone know of a maintained list?
Is it safe to assume that the Latin language marks listed in Glyphs’ sidebar are complete and up-to-date?

Thank you for putting that together! However, your list seems to be 12 characters short of the full list of 446.
The most glaring one being uppercase N. I am not sure about the other 11, as I don’t know of a quick way to check.

EDIT: found this right after:

1 Like

Super!