# When to set panose numbers, TypoAscender, WinAscent, etc.? **URL:** \ **Category:** Glyphs\ **Created:** [December 27, 2018, 11:20pm UTC](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/t/when-to-set-panose-numbers-typoascender-winascent-etc/10596 "2018-12-27T23:20:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![russmcmullin](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/f07891/32.png) [@russmcmullin](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/u/russmcmullin)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 11:20pm UTC](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/t/when-to-set-panose-numbers-typoascender-winascent-etc/10596/1 "2018-12-27T23:20:09Z")
When I convert fonts from .vfb to .glyphs, I see custom parameters set for things like panose, glyphOrder, and TypoAscender. With the exception of some OpenType features, I have been deleting the custom parameters carried over from FontLab Studio. My limited testing in Windows hasn’t shown any obvious problems, but I want to make sure I have my bases covered. How necessary is it to set these custom parameters? My goal is to make fonts that work predictably on PC and Mac. ---
**Author:** ![mekkablue](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/user_avatar/forum.glyphsapp.com/mekkablue/32/23_2.png) [@mekkablue](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/u/mekkablue)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 10:04am UTC](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/t/when-to-set-panose-numbers-typoascender-winascent-etc/10596/2 "2018-12-28T10:04:44Z")
There are explanations for every parameter in the appendix of the handbook. For Vertical Metrics, see the vertical metrics tutorial. Forget panose, it is pretty much irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![GeorgSeifert](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/user_avatar/forum.glyphsapp.com/georgseifert/32/259_2.png) [@GeorgSeifert](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/u/GeorgSeifert)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 12:06pm UTC](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/t/when-to-set-panose-numbers-typoascender-winascent-etc/10596/3 "2018-12-28T12:06:19Z")
If you don’t know what the values are, chances are that you don’t need them ;). ---
**Author:** ![JeremyTankard](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/user_avatar/forum.glyphsapp.com/jeremytankard/32/6409_2.png) [@JeremyTankard](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/u/JeremyTankard)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2018, 8:54am UTC](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/t/when-to-set-panose-numbers-typoascender-winascent-etc/10596/4 "2018-12-29T08:54:20Z")
Like the cavalier reasoning 😀 ---
**Author:** ![russmcmullin](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/f07891/32.png) [@russmcmullin](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/u/russmcmullin)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/t/when-to-set-panose-numbers-typoascender-winascent-etc/10596/5 "2018-12-29T15:48:44Z")
Thanks. I have read most of the explanations in the handbook, as well as many pages elsewhere. What I was looking for was expert opinions like, “Forget panose, it is pretty much irrelevant.” ---
**Author:** ![Fini](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/e47c2d/32.png) [@Fini](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/u/Fini)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 9:22am UTC](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/t/when-to-set-panose-numbers-typoascender-winascent-etc/10596/6 "2023-11-16T09:22:42Z")
Well, “Forget panose, it is pretty much irrelevant.” is a very bold claim. If you are creating a font for terminal emulator use you should definitively set appropriate Panose values. There are clients (terminal emulators) out there in 2023 that look at Panose and only allow the font if it is marked `monospace` there! You can set these values here: ![Screenshot 2023-11-16 at 10.08.47](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/uploads/default/original/3X/3/5/350df49804d7a2db8877866a50bb1b41d97d2d2d.jpeg) I know this thread is rather old, but I believe that information needs some clarification as it still comes up in new fonts. And at least me, personally, use this forum also as knowledge base 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jkutilek](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/user_avatar/forum.glyphsapp.com/jkutilek/32/29173_2.png) [@jkutilek](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/u/jkutilek)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 9:59am UTC](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/t/when-to-set-panose-numbers-typoascender-winascent-etc/10596/7 "2023-11-16T09:59:48Z")
Which terminal emulators would that be? I think looking at `post.isFixedPitch` would be a much better way to find out if a font is monospaced. ---
**Author:** ![Fini](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/e47c2d/32.png) [@Fini](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/u/Fini)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 10:08am UTC](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/t/when-to-set-panose-numbers-typoascender-winascent-etc/10596/8 "2023-11-16T10:08:54Z")
According to my old commit message when I researched it, it is for example Windows CMD and Powershell (if not used with the more modern Windows Terminal). > > > \[why\] > Some of the patched Mono fonts do not turn up in the font chooser > of Windo…ws CMD and PowerShell (and probably more). > > \[how\] > For some reasons Windows does not identify the fonts as being strictly > monospaced, so they are hidden in that font choosers. > > For the monospaced fonts we set now the Panose proportion 'monospaced'. > Windows seems to honor the Panose properties. > > It is not clear why we need to set the old Panose props, especially as > Cascadia Code does not (!) set them and is still detected as monospaced. > > Anyhow, the way Windows detects if a font is monospaced is a mystery (at > least for me), and this works, so ;-) > > Signed-off-by: Fini Jastrow \ Let me check if `Fontforge` (that is used over there) sets `isFixedPitch` based on Panose; `Fontforge` does a lot of strange things 😉 * * * `Fontforge` does not touch `isFixedPitch` via `Panose`. Continuing … It seems it not exposed in `Fontforge`, i.e. can not be seen. On generation it is (automatically) set if all non-empty glyphs (in the foreground) have the same widths. Because the mentioned project above does force all glyph width to be identical (for some settings) and even THOSE fonts needed the Panose set, we can conclude that `isFixedPitch` is maybe necessary but not sufficient for CMD et al. ---
**Author:** ![jkutilek](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/user_avatar/forum.glyphsapp.com/jkutilek/32/29173_2.png) [@jkutilek](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/u/jkutilek)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 5:54pm UTC](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/t/when-to-set-panose-numbers-typoascender-winascent-etc/10596/9 "2023-11-16T17:54:39Z")
Thanks for your research! I just tried to remove the PANOSE setting from my Sudo font, and reexport it. It is still recognized by PowerShell. The only thing that says “monospaced” is now the `isFixedPitch` setting. In fact, even the proportional (“UI”) fonts are offered in PowerShell, because apparently the `isFixedPitch` setting cannot be turned off on a per-instance basis. ![Bildschirmfoto 2023-11-16 um 18.54.18](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/uploads/default/original/3X/5/6/562b0e9fe50db4dbd3fae2c1279ca9a40d4e4b82.png) ![Bildschirmfoto 2023-11-16 um 18.46.58](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/uploads/default/original/3X/9/6/969294da2e38b998ca5512b216df4f6375e83d9f.png) (PowerShell 7.3.9 with Windows-Terminal 1.18.2822.0) Feel free to try these fonts: > > > //github.com/jenskutilek/sudo-font/tree/master/sudo ---
**Author:** ![Fini](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/e47c2d/32.png) [@Fini](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/u/Fini)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 6:11pm UTC](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/t/when-to-set-panose-numbers-typoascender-winascent-etc/10596/10 "2023-11-16T18:11:30Z")
> [@jkutilek](#): > > PowerShell 7.3.9 with Windows-Terminal 1.18.2822.0 As I said, affected is only the old Windows Terminal less versions of CMD and Powershell, how was that called ~~conshost~~ or something? I could not find it in Windows 11 anymore (that seems to always use Windows Terminal, rightly so), but with Windows 10 it was possible to start CMD/Powershell without Windows Terminal: ![image](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/uploads/default/original/3X/9/1/91b94a32f7b55f2cf08bf00f374733e5a7f6858a.png) And Sudo is not recognized…: ![image](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/uploads/default/original/3X/5/2/523110d531e2fe141c889cad7fc9220b91e94fd4.png) The font chooser starts with outline fonts (alphabetical) and than raster fonts. ---
**Author:** ![jkutilek](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/user_avatar/forum.glyphsapp.com/jkutilek/32/29173_2.png) [@jkutilek](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/u/jkutilek)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2023, 9:38am UTC](https://forum.glyphsapp.com/t/when-to-set-panose-numbers-typoascender-winascent-etc/10596/11 "2023-11-17T09:38:32Z")
Thanks for checking. I think I found a way to start the old cmd.exe, or at least it looks like it (I’m not that familiar with Windows), on Windows 11, but Sudo is also in the font menu there. Maybe it all runs on a new foundation that can’t be turned off anymore.