List of common kerning-pairs

Dear Glyphs user,

I’m looking for a list of common kerning pairs. I searched through whole net and couldn’t find anything. So thats why I ask you if you want support me to set up a big list of kerning pairs. Please help me to expand this list!

A C
A G
A O
A V
A W
A T
L T
L O
T A

when we’re finished. this list would be nice as a feature inside glyphsapp. ?? :slight_smile:
Thanks for helping.

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Not sure this makes much sense, as it depends very much on the design of your typeface. And the danger lurks that you only look at the two letters, but it is better to kern in a larger context, and set up sample strings.

Take a look at this:
http://urtd.net/projects/cod/

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I though we take Helevetica as basic font to define this list. maybe for the beginners it would be a big help.

what do you mean with “in a larger context”?
sorry for asking stupid, it has to be as a bloody kerning beginner like me :wink:

kerning in a sentence?

Yes, in a word or sentence.

For beginners, I would advise to stay away from kerning as long as possible, and rather try to get the spacing right.

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You can make a general kerning text, which is not dependent on a certain typeface. Of course you might have to add or remove some, depending on what you have in the font. And as mekkablue says, it’s better to leave kerning as late as possible, though you might have to revisit basic sidebearing.

Anyway, this is the cap A part of my kerning text (I cannot share the whole thing). I recommend changing the text view width to at least 20,000 in Preference.

AAABACADAEAFAGAHA
AIAJAKALAMANAOAPA
AQARASATAUAVAWA
AXAYAZAÞAÆAŒA
AARON ABANDON ACADEMY ADAM
AENEAS AFFIRM FANG BAG GAUGE
AHOY HANDSOME AILEEN MARTIAN
TAJIK JACOBTAKE KAART ALONSO
LAMDA AMORE MARS AND NASA
SHAOLIN MOAN APOLLO PANAMA
AQUA QAHIR ARABIC ASSASSIN
LATIN ISTANBUR AUNT JUANITA
AVION ADVANCE SAW WAND SAX
XAVIER CRAYON YARD AZUR CABEZA
FERÐAÆTLAN MÆGÞA

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This is a kind of old thread, my apologies.
I found it looking for lists of frequently badly kerned words, I think it was the top hit.

Anyone who stumbles on it like I did might try this site:
http://web.archive.org/web/20180621013020/http://www.logofontandlettering.com/kernking.html

The default sample strings in Glyphs are a quite good starting point. And as said before: keen only what is really needed. I had some fonts where I didn’t even need kerning between A and V.

I looked at the site. Not sure about it. Uzßai as a kern string is at least questionable.

@georgseifert: really? id like to see that :smiley:

matching each letter of the alphabet against the others i guess is a general approach to determin which pairs have the most glaring problems

aaabacadaeafagahaiajakalamanaoapaqarasatauavawaxayaza
babbbcbdbebfbgbhbibjbkblbmbnbobpbqbrbsbtbubvbwbxbybzb
cacbcccdcecfcgchcicjckclcmcncocpcqcrcsctcucvcwcxcyczc
dadbdcdddedfdgdhdidjdkdldmdndodpdqdrdsdtdudvdwdxdydzd
fafbfcfdfefffgfhfifjfkflfmfnfofpfqfrfsftfufvfwfxfyfzf
gagbgcgdgegfggghgigjgkglgmgngogpgqgrgsgtgugvgwgxgygzg
hahbhchdhehfhghhhihjhkhlhmhnhohphqhrhshthuhvhwhxhyhzh
iaibicidieifigihiiijikiliminioipiqirisitiuiviwixiyizi
jajbjcjdjejfjgjhjijjjkjljmjnjojpjqjrjsjtjujvjwjxjyjzj
kakbkckdkekfkgkhkikjkkklkmknkokpkqkrksktkukvkwkxkykzk
lalblcldlelflglhliljlklllmlnlolplqlrlsltlulvlwlxlylzl
mambmcmdmemfmgmhmimjmkmlmmmnmompmqmrmsmtmumvmwmxmymzm
nanbncndnenfngnhninjnknlnmnnnonpnqnrnsntnunvnwnxnynzn
oaobocodoeofogohoiojokolomonooopoqorosotouovowoxoyozo
papbpcpdpepfpgphpipjpkplpmpnpopppqprpsptpupvpwpxpypzp
qaqbqcqdqeqfqgqhqiqjqkqlqmqnqoqpqqqrqsqtquqvqwqxqyqzq
rarbrcrdrerfrgrhrirjrkrlrmrnrorprqrrrsrtrurvrwrxryrzr
sasbscsdsesfsgshsisjskslsmsnsospsqsrssstsusvswsxsyszs
tatbtctdtetftgthtitjtktltmtntotptqtrtstttutvtwtxtytzt
uaubucudueufuguhuiujukulumunuoupuqurusutuuuvuwuxuyuzu
vavbvcvdvevfvgvhvivjvkvlvmvnvovpvqvrvsvtvuvvvwvxvyvzv
wawbwcwdwewfwgwhwiwjwkwlwmwnwowpwqwrwswtwuwvwwwxwywzw
xaxbxcxdxexfxgxhxixjxkxlxmxnxoxpxqxrxsxtxuxvxwxxxyxzx
yaybycydyeyfygyhyiyjykylymynyoypyqyrysytyuyvywyxyyyzy
zazbzczdzezfzgzhzizjzkzlzmznzozpzqzrzsztzuzvzwzxzyzzz

AaAbAcAdAeAfAgAhAiAjAkAlAmAnAoApAqArAsAtAuAvAwAxAyAzA
BaBbBcBdBeBfBgBhBiBjBkBlBmBnBoBpBqBrBsBtBuBvBwBxByBzB
CaCbCcCdCeCfCgChCiCjCkClCmCnCoCpCqCrCsCtCuCvCwCxCyCzC
DaDbDcDdDeDfDgDhDiDjDkDlDmDnDoDpDqDrDsDtDuDvDwDxDyDzD
FaFbFcFdFeFfFgFhFiFjFkFlFmFnFoFpFqFrFsFtFuFvFwFxFyFzF
GaGbGcGdGeGfGgGhGiGjGkGlGmGnGoGpGqGrGsGtGuGvGwGxGyGzG
HaHbHcHdHeHfHgHhHiHjHkHlHmHnHoHpHqHrHsHtHuHvHwHxHyHzH
IaIbIcIdIeIfIgIhIiIjIkIlImInIoIpIqIrIsItIuIvIwIxIyIzI
JaJbJcJdJeJfJgJhJiJjJkJlJmJnJoJpJqJrJsJtJuJvJwJxJyJzJ
KaKbKcKdKeKfKgKhKiKjKkKlKmKnKoKpKqKrKsKtKuKvKwKxKyKzK
LaLbLcLdLeLfLgLhLiLjLkLlLmLnLoLpLqLrLsLtLuLvLwLxLyLzL
MaMbMcMdMeMfMgMhMiMjMkMlMmMnMoMpMqMrMsMtMuMvMwMxMyMzM
NaNbNcNdNeNfNgNhNiNjNkNlNmNnNoNpNqNrNsNtNuNvNwNxNyNzN
OaObOcOdOeOfOgOhOiOjOkOlOmOnOoOpOqOrOsOtOuOvOwOxOyOzO
PaPbPcPdPePfPgPhPiPjPkPlPmPnPoPpPqPrPsPtPuPvPwPxPyPzP
QaQbQcQdQeQfQgQhQiQjQkQlQmQnQoQpQqQrQsQtQuQvQwQxQyQzQ
RaRbRcRdReRfRgRhRiRjRkRlRmRnRoRpRqRrRsRtRuRvRwRxRyRzR
SaSbScSdSeSfSgShSiSjSkSlSmSnSoSpSqSrSsStSuSvSwSxSySzS
TaTbTcTdTeTfTgThTiTjTkTlTmTnToTpTqTrTsTtTuTvTwTxTyTzT
UaUbUcUdUeUfUgUhUiUjUkUlUmUnUoUpUqUrUsUtUuUvUwUxUyUzU
VaVbVcVdVeVfVgVhViVjVkVlVmVnVoVpVqVrVsVtVuVvVwVxVyVzV
WaWbWcWdWeWfWgWhWiWjWkWlWmWnWoWpWqWrWsWtWuWvWwWxWyWzW
XaXbXcXdXeXfXgXhXiXjXkXlXmXnXoXpXqXrXsXtXuXvXwXxXyXzX
YaYbYcYdYeYfYgYhYiYjYkYlYmYnYoYpYqYrYsYtYuYvYwYxYyYzY
ZaZbZcZdZeZfZgZhZiZjZkZlZmZnZoZpZqZrZsZtZuZvZwZxZyZzZ

AABACADAEAFAGAHAIAJAKALAMANAOAPAQARASATAUAVAWAXAYAZA
ABBCBDBEBFBGBHBIBJBKBLBMBNBOBPBQBRBSBTBUBVBWBXBYBZB
ACBCCCDCECFCGCHCICJCKCLCMCNCOCPCQCRCSCTCUCVCWCXCYCZC
ADBDCDDDEDFDGDHDIDJDKDLDMDNDODPDQDRDSDTDUDVDWDXDYDZD
AEBECEDEEEFEGEHEIEJEKELEMENEOEPEQERESETEUEVEWEXEYEZE
AFBFCFDFEFFFGFHFIFJFKFLFMFNFOFPFQFRFSFTFUFVFWFXFYFZF
AGBGCGDGEGFGGGHGIGJGKGLGMGNGOGPGQGRGSGTGUGVGWGXGYGZG
AHBHCHDHEHFHGHHHIHJHKHLHMHNHOHPHQHRHSHTHUHVHWHXHYHZH
AIBICIDIEIFIGIHIIIJIKILIMINIOIPIQIRISITIUIVIWIXIYIZI
AJBJCJDJEJFJGJHJIJJJKJLJMJNJOJPJQJRJSJTJUJVJWJXJYJZJ
AKBKCKDKEKFKGKHKIKJKKKLKMKNKOKPKQKRKSKTKUKVKWKXKYKZK
ALBLCLDLELFLGLHLILJLKLLLMLNLOLPLQLRLSLTLULVLWLXLYLZL
AMBMCMDMEMFMGMHMIMJMKMLMMMNMOMPMQMRMSMTMUMVMWMXMYMZM
ANBNCNDNENFNGNHNINJNKNLNMNNNONPNQNRNSNTNUNVNWNXNYNZN
AOBOCODOEOFOGOHOIOJOKOLOMONOOOPOQOROSOTOUOVOWOXOYOZO
APBPCPDPEPFPGPHPIPJPKPLPMPNPOPPPQPRPSPTPUPVPWPXPYPZP
AQBQCQDQEQFQGQHQIQJQKQLQMQNQOQPQQQRQSQTQUQVQWQXQYQZQ
ARBRCRDRERFRGRHRIRJRKRLRMRNRORPRQRRRSRTRURVRWRXRYRZR
ASBSCSDSESFSGSHSISJSKSLSMSNSOSPSQSRSSSTSUSVSWSXSYSZS
ATBTCTDTETFTGTHTITJTKTLTMTNTOTPTQTRTSTTTUTVTWTXTYTZT
AUBUCUDUEUFUGUHUIUJUKULUMUNUOUPUQURUSUTUUUVUWUXUYUZU
AVBVCVDVEVFVGVHVIVJVKVLVMVNVOVPVQVRVSVTVUVVVWVXVYVZV
AWBWCWDWEWFWGWHWIWJWKWLWMWNWOWPWQWRWSWTWUWVWWWXWYWZW
AXBXCXDXEXFXGXHXIXJXKXLXMXNXOXPXQXRXSXTXUXVXWXXXYXZX
AYBYCYDYEYFYGYHYIYJYKYLYMYNYOYPYQYRYSYTYUYVYWYXYYYZY
AZBZCZDZEZFZGZHZIZJZKZLZMZNZOZPZQZRZSZTZUZVZWZXZYZZZ

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This list combines character frequency and typical kerning value:

Note: it’s in reverse order. The pairs at the botom have the highest frequency combined with typically large (neative or positive) values, so they can be considered the “most important ones”.

The list is used by http://justanotherfoundry.com/generator for the typical kern pair suppressions and boost.

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Maybe you guys are interested in this site:

http://www.impallari.com/testing/

It is a site where you can drag and drop your font and it gives you lots of sample texts, kerning pairs and so on displayed with your font.

maybe this will help?

http://www.as8.it/type/basic_kerning_text.html

Hi,
Getting into kerning my second family - found this resource for kerning pairs somewhat helpful and wanted to share here —> http://www.ninastoessinger.com/stringmaker/index.php

Also, Question!
How are people feeling about only doing kerning pairs vs. kerning classes? Pros/cons?

Thx :slight_smile:

Kerning classes make for a smaller file size. It is the way to go.

Hey George,
Was thinking that some of the “care and attention” to the actual pairs might hurt from it?

Thank you for your input! :slight_smile:

You can’t do kerning without classes. Or do you plan to repeat yourself with all the pairs involving accented letters?

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Kerning classes take less time to set up, and most if not all font editors allow for exclusions. Nothing suffers.

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Did anyone else get sent to a Canadian marijuana and cannabis dispensary???
:grimacing: