Vertical Metrics & MyFonts

Hi!

Version 2.6.1 (1230)

MyFonts gives me this error:
We’ve tested your fonts to ensure that when used on Windows, the acsenders and descenders will not appear clipped or cut off. It is good practice to ensure that your vertical metrics also accomodate your diacritics.

These are my settings for all masters:
typoAscender = 780
typoDescender = “-220”
typoLineGap = 200
winAscent = 980
winDescent = 290
hheaAscender = 780
hheaDescender = “-220”
strikeoutPosition = 324
strikeoutSize = 50

Highest and lowest glyphs for Supernett:
Master: Light
Highest: (top y: 934.1)
Lowest: (bottom y: -242.0)

Master: Bold Condensed
Highest: (top y: 969.3)
Lowest: (bottom y: -251.0)

Master: Bold
Highest: (top y: 969.2)
Lowest: (bottom y: -269.0)

Master: Condensed
Highest: (top y: 958.1)
Lowest: (bottom y: -242.1)

Master: Regular
Highest: (top y: 960.0)
Lowest: (bottom y: -246.0)

Master: Light Condensed
Highest: (top y: 933.0)
Lowest: (bottom y: -235.0)

I thought, I did everything right but actually not …
Please let me know what is causing this issue.

Thank you!
Georg

The typoAscender seems low, but it is hard to say because you did not tell us how high your (cap) diacritics are, which is what the MyFonts error message is about:

Try the Webfont Strategy from this tutorial please:
https://glyphsapp.com/tutorials/vertical-metrics

typoAscender = hheaAscender

MyFonts is talking about Windows, so I guess they mean winAscent and winDescent.
As this is an update for an existing font, I favour to keep Vertical metrics as much as possible. I hope, the screenshot helps.

Cheers!
Georg

“Use Typo Metrics” is ON
May this interfere?

Yes, but it is too low. Please read the tutorial. I pasted the summary here:

  1. winAscent = vertical maximum round this value up
  2. winDescent = vertical minimum (positive value) round this value up
  3. typoAscender = hheaAscender = include important uppercase diacritics (e.g. É, Å, Ñ, Ő, etc., or the letters reaching high above the baseline you care most about) round this value
  4. typoDescender = hheaDescender = include descenders completely (the lowest point in j, g, p, q, y, or the letters reaching below the baseline you care most about) round this value down
  5. typoLineGap = hheaLineGap = sensible padding between lines: approx 10–20% of the sum of typoAscender and typoDescender , consider more if descenders and ascenders touch each other across lines (in browsers and Office software), less if your ascender and descender values are pretty large
  6. Font Info > Font > Custom Parameters: Use Typo Metrics = yes

Are you sure you measured the heights including components?

Yes, used Rainers Script

The Webfont Strategy produces quite a distance text to textbox in layout apps which I do not prefer.
It more or less results in winAscent = typoAscender = hheaAscender

Helvetiva and Arial do it similar to Supernett:

The question is, why does MyFonts report a error for Windows as winAscent and winDescent are fine?

@ AlexPop writes that TTF work at MyFonts.
Here the same: TTFs uploaded at MyFonts are all fine, no errors.

Unfortunately I can’t switch to TTF …
Please help :slight_smile:

This seem to work at MyFonts:

hheaAscender = WinAscent
hheaDescender = WinDescender

I don’t recommend ascenders so low, and hhea/typo values different because that creates discrepancies between browser renderings. The win values are just for clipping, and the hhea/typo Ascenders should give the ‘Ascent’, not the cap height. For the cap height, the Adobe apps (and probably also XPress) already have a different first baseline offset setting (Cmd-B in InDesign). What you are trying to do is to make the Ascent match the cap height, which is literally wrong (ascent and cap height are two different things), and thus results in a confusing UI and takes a choice from the user (because both settings give the same baseline offset).

I understand.

The original family was created in 2013 with Vertical Metrics settings as above.
The 2019 rework and addition may be combined with the 2013 fonts and customers may expect a similar behaviour. This is why I decided to keep typoAscender and typoDesender unchanged.

Your tuturial for Vertical Metrics is great. Here you describe as follows, which let me guess that hheaAscender corresponds with the caps height:
hheaAscender: the height of the ascenders in units
typoAscender: the height of the ascenders in units
winAscent: the top extremum of the font rendering box

What about generating Web Fonts with different settings:
winAscent = typoAscender = hheaAscender
and the same with all Descenders

Grateful for better ideas and suggestion!
Georg

That will likely create too much line gap. The win values should encompass everything that is not supposed to be clipped off.

Everything like what?

Usually the diacritics are the tallest part of a font. What do you have in mind when you say everything (arrows perhaps)?

When you have a font in which the diacritics are the highest and lowest point, then are you supposed to set all three to equal each other?

I do not recommend to equate all values, I recommend the Webfont strategy as outlined in the tutorial. Everything I know about the subject is in the tutorial, but feel free to draw your own conclusions.

Am I missing something?
If the diacritics are the tallest and lowest and it is recommended to consider their heights when we set the hhea,typo and win. Won’t they be equal like always?

The only way around this would be to make hhea and typo height to go below the diacritics. But this is no option really? Or is it?

If you set them all to the tallest heights, the distance between lines will likely be too high, unless you have a design with very compact diacritics. I discussed this at length in the tutorial.

I’m having a similar issue. When submitting my fonts to the Monotype/MyFonts validator, I get a yellow checkbox about the Windows vertical clipping, and another complaining that the “ascend” field isn’t consistent…even though it is.

I’ve followed the webfont method tutorial, and I’ve read the Monotype article on clipping. I’ve tried a dozen things and nothing will pass the validator.

The following settings have worked well in my own testing, and they behave well on Mac and Windows, even Office, but will not pass Monotype’s validator:

image

If I remove the hhea/typo fields and submit with just the win values, it passes, but then the spacing looks odd in some apps like Figma and Office, of course.

Any assistance would be most welcome. I’ve spent so much time trying to figure this out that I’ve considered pulling my work off of Monotype altogether.

What is also necessary with this setup (typo=hhea) is to set the Use Typo Metrics parameter. Otherwise win=hhea is assumed. If it still does not pass, it is better to contact the MyFonts support.

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